I Want to Help People

At least that’s what my doctor said the other day when in the process of telling me why he won’t help me.  Nice.

One common theme among expats here in NL is their dislike and distrust of Dutch doctors.  I’ve always sort of been on the fence because I’ve never had a truly horrendous experience like some others have, but I’ve never actually felt helped with anything either.

My history with Dutch doctors is a bit of a mixed bag.  On the smaller issues, like a sore ankle or something, they don’t mind shipping you off for x-rays and such.  When the problems require more thought and attention, this is where they have always let me down.

One major issue for me was Project Baby.  A silly term I used over the years during our unsuccessful attempts to try to start a family.   During this time I saw a number of doctors, and none really made me feel like they truly want to help.  Either they just showed a complete lack of interest from the start or they seem to really want to help in the beginning but as time went on their level of interest and desire to help dwindled.

There is always an excuse though, and that’s the most irritating part.  They often have quite absurd reasons for not doing things and when you question it they often will tend to fall back on the usual answer – This is not America, we do things differently here!   Each and every time I’ve heard a variation of that same answer it has made me cringe.   I don’t know if they realize it but in saying something like that they are making it blatantly obvious that to some degree they are holding the fact that I am foreign against me.

This is one of the many number of reasons that I’ve decided to give up on Dutch doctors entirely.   I’ve recently learned about a medical center in Den Haag (about a half hour from here), which deals entirely with English speaking foreigners.   Their doctors are mainly Canadian, American, Australian etc and from what I’ve heard, their attitudes reflect that.   I would guess that the bulk of their patients are from Shell and other English speaking companies throughout Den Haag.

I heard about them from a friend of mine who moved here two years ago.  I think she also had some bad experiences with Dutch doctors and like me, started looking for an alternative.   In her opinion, the doctors at the English speaking medical center are much more eager to help.   She said she never feels rushed, they take their time explaining your treatment options and they really make the effort to try to find out what exactly is wrong.   I need that, badly.

The last straw for me came on Thursday afternoon, when I had an appointment to see my doctor about my foot, which had been bothering me for quite some time.   I’d stepped on one of the dogs toys back in September or October and since then it’s been bothering me off and on, usually when I was walking on it a lot.   After my trip to Belgium on Sunday and walking on it for 5-6 hours, I was in agony and finally decided to make an appointment.

Over the last few years, I’ve had little things bothering me that were happening with my body.  Each time one of these things would happen I’d mention it to my husband and say that I will tell the doctor about it at my next appointment.  I never do though, by the time I go see the doctor again I always forget.   Finding the doctors quite useless, I tend to not go see them unless I really have to, so my appointments are few and far between.

When I made the appointment for my foot, my husband suggested that I make a list of these little ailments so that I can show them to my doctor and see if he thinks it is perhaps caused by a larger problem, for example heart, sugar or thyroid problems.  I come from a family with a long history of Cancer and my father is Diabetic, has high blood pressure and has had bypass surgery on his heart a few years ago.   I wanted to be thorough and make sure the doctor had a full picture to decide how to go about doing the tests.  So I put down every tiny feeling I’ve had over the past few years.  Also, problems I’ve been seeing the doctors for that have been ‘inconclusive’ or there was no cause found.

I knew it was pointless to make the list in the first place, assuming that he’d attribute it all to the fact that I am overweight.  Which seems to be a favorite of theirs… and while I understand that some things may be caused by being heavy, I also sometimes wonder if the weight gain isn’t also a symptom of something.  As I gain weight –very- easily and have a lot of trouble getting it off.

When I was seeing the gynecologist during the time we were trying to conceive.  She said I had PCOS-LIKE symptoms, but she couldn’t say for sure if I had it.   That the hair loss MAY be Androgenic Alopecia, but the tests were inconclusive.   In the end it all came to the same answer “We can’t help you”.

When I showed the list to my doctor, his answer was “See a psychiatrist, it’s all in your head”.  At that point I just went silent.  I sat there looking at him, and trying to think of what to say.   He went on to say that anyone who comes in with a list like that should see a psychiatrist and that there is nothing wrong, except what is wrong in their head.

The person I was a few years ago probably would have had a screaming fit, maybe not in the office but once we got home.  All I could do was sit slackjawed trying to fight back the tears.   I FELT crazy.  Mostly because I wasn’t expecting that reaction at all, and after working so hard to adapt and create a life for myself here, when it was finally working and I try to get help for some physical problems… they tell me to see a psychiatrist?!

My husband was with me and was as shocked as I was.  I still couldn’t even speak so he asked the doctor why he would say that.   Surely there were some tests he could do to see if there was perhaps an underlying cause?   The doctor replied, telling him that there could be any number of reasons for the things on the list to be happening, but it would mean I had a number of different things wrong me with me.   My husband tried to argue that maybe some of them WERE actually wrong with me so why doesn’t he test to at least rule them out?

The doctors response?  -   “Well, where would I start?!”

That’s when my husband started to get a little angry and said “Well, YOU are the doctor!!”

In the meantime, I sat and looked from one to the other, frustrated with myself because I felt a few tears escaping even though I was trying really hard not to cry.   I managed to squeak out a few “Ok thanks”, in hopes that they would get the hint and stop so I could just get out of there.

Eventually my husband gave up and we left.

I could tell he was nervous in the car and when we got home, quickly busying himself in the kitchen and avoiding starting a conversation with me.   Experience would have told him that in these situations in the past, I’d fly into a rage about how much I hated it here, even though I don’t always, at moments like that I do.

I had no energy for it though, and I haven’t for quite a long time.   The fight in me is gone when it comes to dealing with certain aspects of life in this country.   So much has changed for the better but there are some things that I know will always remain the same, and dealing with the doctors here is one of them.

These are the same doctors who when I visited them years ago, when struggling to adapt and deal with the culture shock and homesickness, put me on anti-depressants, rather than helping to find me a therapist like I asked.  Not once, not twice, but three times.  Three times I was put on anti-depressants after visiting the doctor to try to get a referral to a therapist.

The same doctors who a previous time when I went asking for a therapist, forwarded me to a man who deals with asylum seekers.   Who, when I explained that I was feeling down about the weight I’d gained and was having trouble with adjusting to my new life, told me to “Lose weight or go back to Canada”.

The same doctors that after 7 years of requests, finally forwarded me to a psychologist.  Who told me to see my doctor and wean myself off the anti-depressants IMMEDIATELY, because I did not suffer from depression at all, rather a difficult situation after years of asking for help and not receiving it.

So now, when I have honest to goodness physical problems, they tell me to get a therapist.

The thing is, I know it’s not in my head.  I know that because some of the things I’m experiencing has run in my family.   The burning red cheeks and the sensitivity to touch (if you poke me, it hurts – BAD), for example.   These are not things that I alone have been feeling… my sister, my mother and my grandmother on my mother’s side all have this as well.  How can I be making it up in my head when the last three generations of my mother’s family have had the exact same symptoms?

The only difference is, I mentioned it to my doctor to try to find out why.  Maybe I should send my sister to her doctor in Canada and see if THEY can figure it out.  At least then I’d know.

Anyhow, it’s not like I am falling apart at the seams.   Maybe I am a bit more sensitive in regards to different things I feel happening in my body because of the history in our family.  My father lost almost his entire family (his grandmother, his mother and her 5 siblings) to Cancer.  So yeah, maybe I am a little paranoid.  Still though, wouldn’t that make my doctor a little more cautious as well?

I’m sure losing weight would maybe reduce this some, as I wouldn’t worry so much about developing heart trouble, high blood pressure or Diabetes (like my dad)… but that isn’t going to happen overnight either.

Please don’t get me wrong, this is not a I HATE THE NETHERLANDS post.   This is just about this one aspect of life in the Netherlands that has me frustrated right now.   While, during these moments of frustration, I may sound like I hate it here… I don’t.   It’s just hard sometimes when dealing with the things that don’t change and continue to be a source of frustration.

P.s. This feels a little wierd, I’m not used to writing about such personal topics anymore. Eish.

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18 comments

  1. Hi,

    Using Google I landed on your blog and was reading here and there. I’m Dutch and a fresh immigrant in New Zealand, (landed here only 3 years ago) so the other side of the medal, sort of.
    Anyway I have a thyroid condition and some of what you typed up there sounds a bit like thyroid problems. Have they ever tested you and what levels did you get?
    If not, ask them to test you and ask for your TSH, T4 and T3, which will give an overview of your levels. If you are on the low or high end of your thyroid levels it could explain some of your problems.
    The thyroid is the thermostat of the body and when it’s not working well can play havoc in it. Depression etc can also be caused by it, and let’s not even talk about weight gain! Even if you show as ‘normal’ in the tests, it could still play a role. So not as bad as suspecting cancer or a heart problem.
    From what I read of you I recognize a lot of me before my thyroid problem was discovered (Mine had to come out in the end, but thats another story).
    Anyway there ARE good doctors in Holland, but you have to look well to find one and check them out thoroughly ..and even then..
    In over 25 years I had 3 bad ones and one good one. So if they are not good, let your feet do the talking.
    Unfortunately the good one didnt want to immigrate with us ;)
    (p.s. and almost forgot to say: I am having similar problems with GP’s here!)

  2. Okay, I almost feel ashamed for being Dutch, reading what you had to go through. This is just too ridicoulus for words!
    Hope you get better help (or should I say ANY help) in Den Haag!

  3. XBox4NappyRash – Yeah, you guys actually got quite lucky. I know it seemed like a long rough road but you are getting help now and that’s a raaaaare thing around here! Still reading and crossing my fingers for you two!

    Sonya – Thanks so much for your comments. It’s been a while since I’ve written anything so personal on here. I used to be quite no holds barred with my blog but at times it’s come back to bite me on the ass. I’m glad I shared this though because I know it’s something so many of us expats are frustrated about. I felt horrible and I knew if I talked about it on here I’d find a lot of understanding from the rest of the expat community. I really needed that, because I was starting to think I’d lost my marbles completely!

    mub – I can be quite stubborn at times too but I think I’m all fought out at the moment. I just sat there and let hubby do the fighting for me, and it ended up being pointless anyway. I haven’t left these doctors for the same reason, they CAN be very nice at times, even when they aren’t helping you. It’s a husband and wife practice and I generally find the wife to be quite a lot nicer, but the husband has seemed OK lately. I guess not haha In any case I really need a change of venue, so to speak. I think I’ve been going to them for a long time and they have made up their mind about me and that’s it. I need a fresh pair of eyes.

    Denise – Good lord, only in the Netherlands would they have someone come in with those symptoms and completely blow you off. I’m shocked but not at all surprised.

    Z – I think you are right about a lot of doctors seeing what they do as a business nowadays rather than it just being rooted in the desire to help people, and that’s sad.

    Nicola – I was tested for years by my gyno. Lots of bloodwork and ultrasounds but no surgeries. They have never even mentioned endometriosis, so I doubt I’ve ever been tested for it. I’ll ask about it when I see the new docs.

    Monica van Mannen – I’d be curious to hear her experiences!

    Amber – Oh believe me they have the same reaction here when you are heavy and pregnant, I’ve heard a lot of stories about that. I probably CAN get pregnant with IVF and I am insured for something like 7 cycles, but the doctors refuse to do it because I’m overweight and that reduces my chances. They said I have to lose like 80lbs before they’d consider it and suggested I get my stomach stapled. I was like uhhhhhh… gee thx.

    DutchBitch – I’d love to hear what kind of reputation my doctors have in the ‘doctor world’ here in NL!

    alala – I’ll be sure to report as soon as I visit them! It might be a while though, I’m keen to stay away from doctors now for a few months. After I get my foot sorted out, I mean.

    Gail – Believe it or not, they have never asked my family history. The only reason they know is because I made a point of telling them… and the few times I did try to tell them they blew it off. Like they don’t care what the rest of my family has, they are dealing with me. It’s crazy!

    Renee – I know exactly what you mean. We work really hard to adapt and appreciate life here but it’s really difficult when things like this come up that you just CAN’T accept, like you said. There are limits on what we can tolerate, I think.

  4. “See a psychiatrist, it’s all in your head”

    That’s about the least medical of any advice I’ve ever heard.

    I would be concerned with the family history of cancer, too. Family medical history is a very common preliminary question; not asking those sorts of questions as a starting point seems ignorant to me.

    Gail at Larges last blog post… Pastafarian Dinner

  5. I think I want to know more about that clinic in Den Haag too. Yours isn’t the first grim report on Dutch doctors I’ve seen.

    Your questions are valid. I think you should take them to a different doctor.

    alalas last blog post… all, then nothing

  6. OK, Hon… As you know I WORK at a medical center with doctors and this… well… *SHOCK*

    What a friggin asshole that doctor is!!! I can’t believe it!!!

    DutchBitchs last blog post… ND move over!

  7. This just pisses me off. You should never want to cry in a doctor’s office because they won’t help you. It just makes me want to send you a million hugs and bitchslap that doctor.

    It also makes me want to go knock some sense into him. He thinks that in America, we just get what we want? Does he think it is like a wine list? “Oh here, Ms. Jacobson, this is our list of medications available. I suggest the Xanax.”

    Screw that! Every time I see a doctor, I’m told to lose weight. And even being pregnant, the doctor said I shouldn’t diet during pregnancy, but I should see a nutritionist, which she recommended me to. I’m not sure what he thinks the medical profession here does. I’ve never had to ask for tests because, well, THEY are a the doctor – they tell me what tests need to be done.

    I really, really hope things go well in Den Haag; I can’t imagine living somewhere and not being able to get help.

    Ambers last blog post… Independence Day

  8. I probably don’t have to tell you that I, too, have had similar issues in the Netherlands when it comes to my health. I *have* gone screaming and ranting from the doctor’s office and I *have* spent 18 months going back and forth to doctors, begging for a scan because I thought I had an ulcer (guess what? I had the start of an ulcer). Last July I hurt my foot and I still have probems with it, but I’m just really wary of calling the doctor because I know nothing will come of it. I could go on and on, but I think you get my gist. There are just some things that I will never accept or get used to here and that to me, is really sad. Just sad. Not pathetic and not that I am not trying to accept, but when it seems like the people who are supposed to care, don’t, then I CAN’T accept that.

    In any case, I really hope you get in at the clinic in Den Haag, I hope they get some answers for you, especially in the family making department. I understand this can be hard and I have a similar situation (except I *can*, he *can’t* because he already shut his factory down, and when we tried to re-open the factory, the incompetent surgeon blew the factory up instead, if you get my drift…), but SURELY there should be some answers for you and hubby.

    *hugs*

  9. Monica Van Maanen

    Boy, am I going to tell my sister-in-law about this! She lives in the Netherlands and was born in Canada. She has health problems, too. I don’t think they’re quite the same as yours but I’m going to see what she thinks of this post, for sure!

  10. Wow, I knew a little about your problems trying to find a Dr in the Netherlands, but reading it all in one hit like this, and also experiencing a similar thing here in NZ (but nowhere near on the same scale) in the past couple of years, really helps realise how awful it is! I did end up depressed, I was on the verge of complete mental breakdown because NOONE would listen to me when I said ‘something is wrong’. Yes I’m overweight, but something was WRONG, and would still be wrong even if I was textbook weight (which btw is ridiculously skinny anyhow, I don’t even want to lose that much). I ended up on meds for anxiety/depression and finally got referred to a gynecologist. First one was a psycho bitch who came out with the same ‘lose weight’ solution. Apparently she hadn’t looked in a mirror or on her own scales recently because she was WAY bigger than me. Second was lovely (and hot!) and he had me straight in for surgery. I had endometriosis and they were able to sort it out then and there. The constant fatigue, which was my main symptom, stopped almost instantly. I think by then the fatigue was a manifestation of both the endo and the constant battle to just find one Dr who would LISTEN. It was such a relief to confirm that it was NOT all in my head. Since then I’ve been back to see the Dr who finally referred me, and she tried to push free samples of expensive weight loss drugs on me, so I haven’t been back again. I’m actually considering going alternative, because western Dr’s, like you said, can deal with bones and structural/physical stuff, but if it’s not hurting in one particular place they find whatever excuse they can to place the blame on you. I’m going to see a kinesiologist when I have some spare cash. I’m a bit sceptical, but I’m going to put that aside as much as possible and see what they can tell me by taking a more holistic view of my body and health. I really hope you can find someone who will listen and go that extra mile to help, because it is not all in your head I’m sure, and anything else that is going on in your head is only because those damn doctors didn’t listen to you in the first place! I’m sure you’ve been down the endo route with your own gyno, but it might be worth bringing up again if you find a new Dr. I’m surprised they couldn’t say for sure about PCOS, because my understanding is that PCOS is diagnosable without invasive testing, whereas the only way to be sure about endo is to have a laproscopy. Don’t give up, keep trying even though you have to deal with the BS to get somewhere, someone will listen eventually and will be able to help you.

    Nicolas last blog post… Theme is a theme is a theme

  11. Sad to read such post. I know what you mean. Experienced similar just with the difference that it is in my home country where I am not a foreigner.. I have a feeling that one has to study medicine or be 100% healthy to live a normal happy life. Being in a hospital where one of the patients is MD makes you cry bucket of tears. Orwell was right with “all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others”.
    I wish you all the best, try all there is to try. ADs make you feel dumb or quiet but won’t solve the problem. There is a big business around medicals and doctors are lazy + they may benefit from prescribing certain medicals..

    Zs last blog post… New Boyfriend, Finally

  12. You hit the nail on the head with this. I’ve been saying it for years and no one would listen. My last trip to the dr was in Oct.08 with chest and arm pain. His comment was I have a mechanical problem and sent me home. If it didn’t stop then come back. Well 4 months later I’m back in the office with hubby this time. Because he made the appt. I refused. The dr still wouldn’t do anything about it. again told hubby it’s mechanical and he doesn’t know anything about it. Hubby said then how about some testing. The response was to monitor my BP for 10 days and drop the paper off at the office. Here I am 5 months later with the same problem including shortness of breath and they refuse to do anything. Because it’s a mechanical problem and they don’t know what it is. Do I hate it here, like you yes somedays I really do. But the Netherlands has their plus side also. I just wish the medical system would wake up and smell the tulips.

    Take care of yourself go to the clinic in Den Haag and let us know what you find out.

  13. My huisarts frustrates the hell out of me sometimes, but luckily if I’m stubborn enough in asking for things they usually get done eventually. We talked about switching to another doctor, but since I almost always am going there to see one of the assistants and I like all of them (for the most part) that we’d stay there for the time being. I consider myself pretty lucky in that regard.

    I think what that doctor said is so completely out of line. I wish there was some sort of way to complain about things like that here, because that goes so far past outrageous that I don’t even know what to say about it. I hope you have good luck at the center in Den Haag, and I hope you’ll post about your experiences there.

    mubs last blog post… The Quandary of Laundry

  14. I can’t thank you enough for writing about your experience. You have helped me even before we started talking online. When I first arrived here I cried all the time. I thought there was something wrong with me. I stumbled upon your blog and spent the next two days reading every post you have ever written. I had tears streaming down my face from laughter at some of the things you said. Everything you spoke about was like you were talking right to me. I love your blog because YOU have decided to stay true to yourself and post about things that happen to all of us when we move to whatever country we choose to.You post about the frustrations and the happy times aswell and you choose not to cover the ugly up and for that you help more than you could imagine.

    With that being said I have to say that I deal with the same things as you do with my doctor. I honestly don’t know why they feel the need to always say they don’t do like they do in the U.S. I am an american and it pisses me off because dutch people as a whole have no freaking clue what so ever as to how it is for us there. Do we over medicate ourselves? hell yeah we do but thats because we dont have the option of staying home when we have a hangnail problem or when we feel stressed out. It isnt their job to sit there and tell you what they think about how they do it elsewhere. They need to HELP YOU!

    I hope you are able to go to that clinic in Den Haag and please post about it if you go with maybe an address. I think I might like to visit there aswell. I also need a complete workup on myself because I face many of the same issues as you do and there is no freaking way I am waling into my doctor here to get it done.

    Again thank you for posting about it and I hope you are able to get in there soon.

    Sonyas last blog post… Painted Cookies

  15. Wow.

    I dunno what to say to that. That is truly horrible from the doctor.

    We always go to them very guarded now, GP, specialists etc, and they usually just about do enough to placate us, but that is just too far.

    Xbox4NappyRashs last blog post… Mother nature & Dr. DooALittleTooMuch

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